\n<\/p>\n
\n\tBefore Chloe Zhao and Kore-eda Hirokazu sat down for their Tokyo International Film Festival conversation, they had each been crying over the other\u2019s work.<\/p>\n
\n\tKore-eda watched Zhao\u2019s \u201cHamnet\u201d in a small screening room with just one other person, grateful no one else was there to see his tears. \u201cI couldn\u2019t stop crying,\u201d the Japanese auteur admitted, moved by the film\u2019s exploration of why creators tell stories and the communal act of experiencing tragedy together.<\/p>\n
\n\tThat morning of their conversation, Zhao had risen at 4 a.m., jet-lagged, to watch Kore-eda\u2019s 1998 masterpiece \u201cAfter Life.\u201d She was crying for an hour while her makeup team worked on her before the event. \u201cI said to Kore-eda-san, I feel like \u2018Hamnet\u2019 and \u2018After Life\u2019 are very much the same film,\u201d Zhao told the TIFF Lounge audience. \u201cBecause it is about how when we see our lives, whether it\u2019s joyful or painful, mirrored back to us, it gives these experiences meaning and makes the human experience a little less difficult.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tThe mutual admiration set the tone for an intimate conversation between two auteurs who share more than they might have expected. The discussion took place as Zhao\u2019s latest feature prepared to close the festival, while Kore-eda is currently in production on his new film \u201cSheep In The Box,\u201d starring Ayase Haruka and comedian Daigo.<\/p>\n
\n\tThe emotional connection revealed a striking similarity in how both directors approach their work: neither knows how their films will end when they begin shooting.<\/p>\n
\n\t\u201cWhen I go in to make a film, I never know how it\u2019s going to end,\u201d Zhao explained. \u201cI will write it on the page so it reads nice, so it gets greenlit and gets money to make a film. But I know deep inside \u2013 and often my lead actors know \u2013 that it\u2019s not there.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tThis creative philosophy nearly proved disastrous on \u201cHamnet.\u201d Four days before production wrapped, only two people at the Globe Theatre knew there was no working ending to the film: Zhao and her lead actress, Jessie Buckley.<\/p>\n
\n\t\u201cI filmed the ending that was on the script,\u201d Zhao recalled. \u201cI looked at it and said, \u2018This doesn\u2019t work. We don\u2019t have a film.’\u201d She remembered Buckley\u2019s reaction: \u201cJessie\u2019s looking at me like, \u2018This is it? I went through all of this and this is the ending?’\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tThe breakthrough came the following morning during a car ride through rainy London. Buckley sent Zhao Max Richter\u2019s \u201cOn the Nature of Daylight\u201d \u2013 the haunting track that appeared in \u201cArrival\u201d and other films. \u201cThat song has a very special ability to harmonize your whole body to the world around you,\u201d Zhao said. \u201cYou suddenly feel like one with everything.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tWhile listening to the song, Zhao found herself reaching for the rain outside the car window. \u201cI wanted to reach nature so that I can no longer be afraid of losing my love, because if we\u2019re all one, then you can\u2019t lose love. It just transforms into something else.\u201d In that moment of personal grief and creative desperation, the film\u2019s true ending revealed itself.<\/p>\n
\n\t\u201cI always wait for the ending to show up, which is very stressful because you\u2019re always this little bit from not having a film,\u201d Zhao admitted. \u201cBut that\u2019s how life is.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tKore-eda expressed understanding, revealing his own unconventional process. He creates storyboards but abandons them once on set. \u201cI\u2019m always looking about two weeks ahead,\u201d he said through translation. \u201cI look at the schedule to see which actors will be on set, and I think about what I can do. I actually write and rewrite the script on set in that space. The staff are probably nervous, but what emerges this way rarely feels wrong.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tZhao drew a distinction between her latest work and her previous films. \u201c\u2018Hamnet\u2019 is about the internal landscape, as opposed to \u2018Nomadland,\u2019 which is about the external landscape,\u201d she explained.<\/p>\n
\n\tWorking with cinematographer Lukasz \u017bal for the first time, Zhao shifted from the wide-open horizons of her earlier American films to something more contained. \u201cIn my previous films, I was in my 30s and very much about chasing as many horizons as possible. So it wass about going wide. With \u2018Hamnet,\u2019 I was interested in how can we confine everything into one frame, one stage, one room, so that the water can go deeper.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tThis theatrical approach led Zhao to ask Kore-eda about his own precisely composed frames, which often recall stage backdrops. The Japanese director explained that he exchanges few words with his cinematographer on set, preferring to explore each other\u2019s intentions through the camera itself. \u201cIt\u2019s very enjoyable,\u201d he said. \u201cIf I just followed the storyboard, it would just be about consuming a tight schedule.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tWhen asked why she works in fiction rather than documentary, Zhao offered a surprising answer about courage \u2013 or her lack of it. \u201cI think when you\u2019re making a documentary, you\u2019re saying, \u2018This is me and this is the subject,’\u201d she explained, citing Werner Herzog\u2019s \u201cInto the Abyss\u201d as an example of fearless documentary filmmaking. \u201cI haven\u2019t found that courage in my 30s to do that work.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tBut there was another reason, rooted in representation and dignity. Zhao spoke about marginalized communities in America \u2013 people on reservations or living in vans \u2013 who are often documented with rough digital cameras under unflattering lights, studied as social issues rather than human beings.<\/p>\n
\n\t\u201cIf you are with them in their lifestyle, you are exposed to the most beautiful landscape of America,\u201d Zhao said. \u201cAnd cinema\u2019s cinematic treatments, these painterly images, are usually \u2013 because of circumstances of history \u2013 preserved for certain demographic people.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tWorking with her cinematographer, Zhao insisted on capturing these faces with the same cinematic treatment as any Hollywood star, shooting at the golden hour. \u201cThe quality of lighting makes us feel like we\u2019re one with light. And that kind of sunset and sunrise, these people who aren\u2019t in big cities, or have the privilege many of us do, are actually experiencing on a daily basis.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\t\u201cSometimes poetry can capture truth better than facts can,\u201d Zhao concluded. \u201cIt is an emotional truth, not just fact.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tZhao found unexpected freedom in her outsider status. \u201cI only saw two and a half westerns when I made my own westerns,\u201d she laughed. \u201cI didn\u2019t have the burdens on my shoulders as Americans do about making a Western. And when I made this Shakespeare, I don\u2019t know Shakespeare very well, so I don\u2019t have the burden as a British person. Everything about Shakespeare is so sacred. I just do whatever I want.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tThis cavalier approach masks an earlier struggle. When Zhao first came to America for school, her insecurity about language was so profound that she gave up on storytelling and studied politics instead. \u201cI didn\u2019t think I could tell stories. How can I do it if I don\u2019t speak a language?\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tBut her favorite films had lots of silence. \u201cThere\u2019s a language of how your face moves and how your body moves,\u201d she realized. \u201cAnd if you don\u2019t speak the language, you actually develop an extra sensitivity to nonverbal interactions.\u201d What was once a challenge became an advantage.<\/p>\n
\n\tBefore the conversation, Zhao had watched Kore-eda\u2019s 1998 masterpiece \u201cAfter Life\u201d \u2013 a film about newly deceased people who must choose one memory to take into eternity while workers in a way station create film recreations of those memories.<\/p>\n
\n\t\u201cI was crying for an hour,\u201d Zhao confessed, explaining how the film resonated with her work on \u201cHamnet,\u201d which deals with how Shakespeare and his wife processed the death of their son. \u201cWhen we see our lives, whether it\u2019s joyful or painful, mirrored back to us, it gives these experiences meaning and makes the human experience a little less difficult.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tShe identified with the characters in \u201cAfter Life\u201d who choose not to select a memory, instead staying in limbo to help others. \u201cMy favorite memories in my life are actually while making belief, while making fantasies that are not real, for other people\u2019s memories,\u201d Zhao said. \u201cWhen you see \u2018Hamnet,\u2019 you\u2019ll see that Shakespeare is also a man who has a lot of trouble connecting and communicating in real life. But when he\u2019s on his stage, he can connect with everything. So there\u2019s a bittersweetness to many of us who chose to be storytellers.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tKore-eda, who made \u201cAfter Life\u201d in his 20s, acknowledged this tension still exists for him in his 60s. \u201cI want to keep making work without becoming cynical about that feeling,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
\n\tZhao praised Kore-eda\u2019s films for their focus on mundane details \u2013 laundry, cooking, daily routines \u2013 that create a meditative rhythm before emotional tsunamis arrive. \u201cA lot of times cinema skips past the 80% in between, showing only the highs and the super lows,\u201d Zhao observed. \u201cBut you invite us into the comfort of these daily rituals. And through that, it goes and it pushes us off. It\u2019s like some kind of ritual and the piece comes in a loop. And then when it hits you, it\u2019s in the body.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tKore-eda modestly accepted the compliment, saying he hopes to build stories from small emotional fluctuations in daily life, though he\u2019s unsure how well he succeeds.<\/p>\n
\n\tThe conversation also touched on practical matters. Kore-eda shoots for roughly two months and tries to finish before dinner when children are on set, adhering to improved labor rules in Japanese production. He also edits at night during production, sometimes sending footage to his team for feedback the next day \u2013 a practice that elicits nervous anticipation from his crew.<\/p>\n
\n\tZhao, by contrast, needs eight hours of sleep and doesn\u2019t touch the edit during production. \u201cI\u2019m so easily influenced by everyone around me,\u201d she explained. \u201cIf I edit something early on and it hasn\u2019t quite worked, it might change how I want to do things.\u201d \u201cHamnet\u201d shot from late July through September.<\/p>\n
\n\tWhen asked about the tension between communal theatrical experiences and streaming platforms, both directors acknowledged the paradox. Kore-eda said he still can\u2019t separate the act of watching a film with someone in the dark from what cinema means to him. \u201cThat\u2019s why we need film festivals \u2013 so that experience doesn\u2019t cease to exist.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tZhao agreed about the importance of communal viewing \u2013 it\u2019s central to \u201cHamnet\u2019s\u201d themes \u2013 but also celebrated how technology has democratized access. \u201cBecause of iPhones and technology, \u2018Songs My Brothers Taught Me\u2019 could be watched by a teenager in South Dakota on the Lakota reservation. I think that is an incredible thing.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tLooking ahead, Zhao said she believes stories choose filmmakers, not the other way around. \u201cWhen the conduit, the lightning conductor is ready, it will come.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tShe has noticed patterns: her first three films explored identity, home and belonging, while \u201cEternals\u201d and \u201cHamnet\u201d deal with oneness and dissolving the illusion of separation. \u201cI think that\u2019s what I\u2019m looking for \u2013 how do we dissolve the illusion of separation that we feel with each other, and feel that kind of oneness that you feel in the moment you are born or when you\u2019re in nature.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\t\u201cI believe in the power of threes,\u201d she added. \u201cSince I made two about that, I think there\u2019s a third one. I just don\u2019t know what it is.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tAs for Kore-eda, he continues production on \u201cSheep In The Box,\u201d maintaining the work-life balance that isn\u2019t really a balance at all. \u201cI\u2019ve become someone who\u2019s always working, and that\u2019s not unpleasant for me,\u201d he admitted. But he wants younger filmmakers to know they don\u2019t have to be 60-year-old workaholics to make films. \u201cIf they think filmmaking might be fun even when choosing it as work, that would be good.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Before Chloe Zhao and Kore-eda Hirokazu sat down for their Tokyo International Film Festival conversation, they had each been crying over the other\u2019s work. Kore-eda watched Zhao\u2019s \u201cHamnet\u201d in a small screening room with just one other person, grateful no one else was there to see his tears. \u201cI couldn\u2019t stop crying,\u201d the Japanese auteur<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":32041,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[54],"tags":[4298,18565,18564,1294,1019,11637,4299],"class_list":{"0":"post-32040","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-entertainment","8":"tag-chloe","9":"tag-hirokazu","10":"tag-koreeda","11":"tag-move","12":"tag-tears","13":"tag-tokyo","14":"tag-zhao"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32040","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=32040"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32040\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/32041"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=32040"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=32040"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/naijaglobalnews.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=32040"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}